January 22, 2021 at 01:15 #10898Peter VK3PFParticipant
Andrew and Manfred,
I think that I have identified an issue with regards to Award tallies:
The question stems from the way that the database treats references worked.
In SOTA, if a summit becomes “invalid” for some reason (e.g. a higher point is found a distance along the same mountain range), contacts made from, or with an activator on, the summit WHILST it was valid still count for award purposes. All that happens is that the summit can no longer be activated after the date that it became invalid. The summit remains on the database but is no longer valid.
The WWFF Directory still lists “Deleted” references as DELETED. It notes the date range when the reference was valid. That is all okay and as one would expect.
When one looks at your own Logsearch results, the summary shows the reference as Invalid (i.e. there is a red cross in the column to the right of the table). I have not checked if the behaviour is the same for an Activator.
Logically, one would expect that if a Hunter worked an Activator in a Reference whilst the Reference was valid, then the Hunter should still have the credit for making the contact/s with the Activator. Similarly, the Activator should retain the credit for the Activation.
Can you shed any light on why the database and Logsearch behave in this matter?
I became aware of the issue today when checking my current Hunter status.
If you look at Top Operators for VKFF, it shows that I have worked 1751 References (All Time).
When I check my status via Logsearch, National Awards, it gives a total of 1749 References worked.
Scrolling through the list of references for me as a Hunter, it shows that VKFF-1737 O’Halloran Hill Recreation Park and VKFF-0734 Lockyer (Recovery) National Park as invalid. Both Parks were “Deleted”.
Surely contacts made with these Parks whilst they were valid should still count towards the relevant awards?
A similar situation one should consider is DXCC entities: A DXCC contact made when the entity was valid still counts towards the DXCC awards scheme after the entity later becomes Deleted…..
Peter VK3PFJune 16, 2022 at 01:29 #12440Peter VK3PFParticipant
Hello all, especially Andrew and the Admin team,
This issue has resurfaced again. Several changes have been made in VK5 due to government changing Reference names and/or incorporating older Parks into new larger Parks. Logically, Paul VK5PAS has “retired” the Parks which have been “discontinued” by adding an end date for the reference validity. Paul also added the appropriate new Parks to the VKFF program.
The LogSearch program now shows several references with which I have made valid contacts as being invalid, even though those contacts were made when the reference was valid.
Similarly, a previous activation of VKFF-0778 Cleland Conservation Park with 47 contacts made now shows as Invalid, even though last week the reference showed as valid! From my Activator summary:
349 VKFF-0778 OC / VK (VK-SA) Cleland Conservation Park VK3PF/5 2017-05-19 47 34 [Not in WWFF Directory]
Logically (at least to me and to several others with whom I have discussed the issue), contacts made to/from a reference when the reference was a valid reference should count, and continue to count, for Awards, even after a reference is retired.
It seems to me that there is something wrong in the way that retired references are handled.
Perhaps a stark example of this is that my Hunter reference count has dropped by 10 references overnight! As a result, my VKFF Hunter tally has now dropped from above 2000 references hunted to 1998 references hunted. I already have the VKFF Hunter Honour Roll 2000 reference certificate, that LogSearch now says that I should not have! I now have a total of 11 references which I have worked in the past which no longer count for any awards.
Surely, any reference hunted or activated when the reference is valid SHOULD remain as valid for award purposes. I appreciate that new contacts or activations of a retired reference will always be invalid – in the case of the recent changes in VK5, new activations should use the new reference number.
I appreciate that our admin team members are all volunteers and undertake their WWFF tasks as volunteers. This issue was first raised by me some 17 months ago, but the issue has not yet been addressed.
I thank all the admin team members locally in VK and globally for their efforts, but I believe that there is a fundamental flaw here that needs to be addressed.
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